Comedy, in general, ages very badly, but the Smothers Brothers are still very funny. They were politically "controversial", but they were the furthest thing from shock comics, and I think that's what makes their comedy translate 50+ years later. Nothing is as dated as last season's transgressiveness, but their routines were sharp but welcoming, you could watch them with your grandparents and your children and everyone would have a laugh. They were well before my time, but I remember seeing them brought out on Letterman, etc, expecting a dire nostalgia act, and they just kill. A great act for any decade.
You are both right, in that they were counterculture. However:
> comedians are supposed to be subversive
No, that's just your preference. Jay Leno and Norm MacDonald are not subversive at all; just funny. Most of the Smothers' comedy was family-friendly, but they did push a few buttons sometimes.
> I hope you talk in a more informed way about time you know
A famous schtick of his on his podcast later on was to get other comedians to accidentally joke about the 9/11 events, and then he'd frame them as monsters for making light of the situation. He got fired from SNL for railing on OJ Simpson and his executive buddies at NBC, he got 'removed' from Silverman's JASH 'collective' for making jokes about 'Arabs', and he subverted the Friar's Club roast by refusing to be rude and only saying 1940s formal-appropriate Vaudeville-act stuff.
The SNL stuff was big news in entertainment at the time. He got interviewed by all the big late-night shows about it and the unfair process, was on Stern, etc etc. The whole nation sort of rallied behind him and agreed that SNL/Lorne Michaels acted unfairly at a time when the entire nation was also seemingly against Simpson.
His outward clean-cut demeanor and presence is exactly what made him so subversive.
Leno, sure, but Norm Macdonald is one of the most subversive comics of my lifetime. A few hours perusing the archives of “I’m Not Norm” on YouTube is time well spent!
With your suggestion that Norm wasn't subversive, like other replies have stated, you're not well informed yourself, so hopefully other conversations with you come from a better informed position too.
Having a different opinion doesn't make you uninformed. Or didn't they teach you that in middle school?
And yes, I was wrong about Norm, although doing topical satire doesn't automatically make you "subversive." Lenny Bruce was actually subversive and got arrested and sentenced to jail for it. Richard Pryor was subversive. George Carlin was sometimes subversive.
It's hard to say George Carlin was subversive when he was flat out aggressive with pretty much no attempt to sneak through any sort of idea that he could, instead, thwack you with. Late in his life, he went full rantsona, for instance his American Dream content. "There's a special club, and you ain't in it!"
He wasn't joking, and wasn't wrong. I don't think it counts as subversive anymore when you're just going that hard. Nobody's gonna be fooled, they'll sign up or they'll peace out.
To my mind, being properly subversive means getting over with the people… you can't really flip the table unless your feet are under it. Yeah, Richard Pryor was utterly subversive. He could seduce anybody with the openness of his comedy, but it meant something and the real target might not have been what it looked like it was.
Very few comedic geniuses can tell jokes that get the whole audience to laugh, including the target and then it slowly dawns on you that you may have been the target all along - because the joke and supposed target that you laughed at revealed your own hopes, dreams, fears, prejudices, etc. And then you laugh harder.
I grew up watching the Smothers Brothers because my dad was a huge fan. So yeah, now what with your middle school I know you are but what am I level retort.
Bill Hicks was my favorite subversive with his not just making marijuana legal but mandatory and suggesting that everyone should have at least one psychedelic experience (large unspoken asterisk stipulating of those that can). Squeegee that third eye clean!
Doug Stanhope can be unbelievably subversive: '60 Inches Of AIDS On Any Given Sunday' behaves like the insane horniness is the joke, just ridiculously over-the-top as if the things he's saying aren't still simple observation comedy. It's overblown TO make it go down easier because it's too obviously outrageous. Subversive.
Probably the best and biggest subversive ever? Eddie Murphy. He went HARD in the same manner: getting you to laugh at his extremeness when the joke is, it's actually not a joke, it's something he's observed. If he just made a case for some of the stuff he brings to your attention it wouldn't go over, but pick just the right spot to go way over the top…
It is helpful for me to remember that there was a time when Americans hated each other almost as much as we hate each other now. I still can't figure out how we got past it the first time.
As best I can tell, it was because Nixon resigned. People had the sense to recognize that a bad thing happened, and we all agreed for once.
I would suggest that this "first time" you are referring to wasn't actually the first time. At least one time prior (there are probably others), it was settled with a brutal war referred to as the Civil War. I wonder if we will have to drop the word "the" and maybe use Civil War II and revise history books to say Civil War I if things continue to progress in certain directions.
Anyone predicting Civil War II is probably too deep into their own ideology. The Civil War was a regional conflict, which is an important requirement. Democrats and Republicans may be very opposed to one another right now (at least in surface rhetoric; when we bother to discuss deeper than a few big issues we usually find more in common than not), but there's not much regionality to it. Every rural area rebelling against the nearest city isn't exactly the same idea as entire states deciding to secede.
There are states that seem to be seriously considering secession. It would be a rational response to the belief that other states are manipulating the vote.
That would bring along a lot of people who don't hold that belief.
Just to expand with more specifics: There was a movement in the mid-90s that tried to convince everyone that Texas never properly brought back into the union, and was trying to re-declare itself as the Republic of Texas[0]. Part of Oregon wants to become part of Idaho[1]. The idea to split California into three parts[2]. These types of things don't happen when everyone is full of brotherly love and is happy with the status quo. If the GP thinks that Civil War II is so absurd, I'd suggest that's just way more optimism than I would ever be able to achieve. As things are progressing, a situation like Gilead from Hand Maid's Tale is not too far of a stretch.
An interesting reflection. After Nixon's shame, the popular discourse seemed able to reflect constructively on his failings and on the Viet Nam war. The country recovered its reputation as a leading democracy.
What the country's enemies within and without have done to information and public discourse in the past decade seems at times almost fatal to the state.
I don't recall the exact numbers, but I read that public opinion was even divided on the Kent State Massacre, with much hostility between the two sides.
I was really sad when I heard about this. I've enjoyed the Smothers Brothers since I was a kid and found my parents' records of them. "Mom Always Liked You Best," falling into a vat of Chocolate, Streets of Laredo, My Old Man, John Henry, Crabs Walk Sidways, Pretoria, etc, etc. If you have never watched them before, look up a few of these.
I was fortunate enough to see them in person when they performed in our city about a decade ago.
Did they ever do just a straight music album? That would have been great. Streets of Laredo starts off so beautifully.
I watched their TV show while I was in high school. Never found the brothers act all that funny but their show was different. They poked fun at the government and then as now the government did not like it at all. The network was under immense pressure, eventually they caved and despite the shows popularity they were cancelled.
That is sad news. I used to listen to a CD of one of their acts on most road trips with my parents. They were so funny, even though the political references were all well before my time. I had no idea they were so well known; since I never heard of them outside my family, I had always just assumed they were some random little show my parents had found the CD for at a goodwill.
A truly legendary comedy duo.
I had the same experience, with a CD on long road trips. I still try to make references to talking to trees, vats full of chocolate, crevasses filled with pumas, boiling that cabbage down, boy, and baby John Henry wetting his dad's leg. Alas, only my own brother ever gets them
When I was 11 or 12 years old I was simply obsessed with yoyos. And Tommy Smothers had his yoyo act, and I was just enthralled. Here was this fully grown adult (this was in the late 80's) doing things with a yoyo that I wanted so badly to do. I always thought him to be the funniest, nicest guy, just based on his act. When I read that he passed, I wept. So long, Tommy.
Yo-young was so popular at my elementary school in ‘88 that we had a competition in the cafeteria (during finals mine snapped and hit the ceiling during an around the world!)
My Dad went thru a similar phase as a kid and introduced me to Tommy. I recall he actually had an instructional video and I would watch his tricks in slow motion to figure them out. At the same time became a bit obsessed with the Smothers Brothers, remember saying to a friend they gave off ultimate cool uncle vibes, so wholesome that they could be deceptively biting and irreverent.
Sad news. I watched them often growing up. In an incalculable stroke of coincidence, I just tonight watched the episode of Saturday Night Live that he hosted along with his brother. Their performances reflected incredible talent.
I mentioned to my wife today that similar levels of acts seem harder to come by these days. Maybe the signal is still there, but the noise has grown to become unbearable.
It's always amusing when I see an old show described as a hit only to run for 3 years. Today's hits (Grey's Anatomy, The Simpsons, any sufficiently popular show on Showtime) are milked until the bitter end. I know it doesn't apply in this case, as this was a political decision, just made me remember it.
The show was wildly popular. It ran for only three years because it was cancelled under political pressure. Interestingly enough, Star Trek TOS ran for the same period ('67-'69).
You can watch this episode for more info. It contains an introduction and epilogue describing the controversy.
Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour ~ Never Aired Episode
'64 to '74, UK & America, has to be one of the most intense 10 years of change in any culture ever, so for a TV show with any sort of a fashionable pop culture hook to survive very long would be really unlikely
Yes, continental europe too, and the 50's also, but I wanted to choose a decade, and kick it off with Beatlemania and wrap it up with the end of Viet Nam, start of the energy (economic) crisis
It's really hard to do these days but I suggest you try to find a U.S radio station that plays 60s songs. And I mean full 60s. With genre varieties. It's downright schizophrenic.
Post 66 might as well just be a different universe as far as music was concerned. You had the 50s clean cut shit lingering around doused with 'controlled risqué' Surfer Rock and neutered Elvis doing films. Sinatra and the Rat Pack are in full swing gaining Second Wind, and ...suddenly it all gets blown the fuck out with psychedelic, progressive, and raga rock. Then two years later blues and heavy metal really start bubbling in. 60's counter culture was NOT a joke. The groundwork was laid in '64 like you pointed out, but by 66 it really went off the rails. Genuine night and day difference.
"comparatively, very few episodes. Especially places like the UK"
OK - Fawlty Towers: 12 episodes. Now, look up the Two Ronnies, Morecambe and Wise, Victoria Wood, Absolutely Fabulous, French and Saunders, Lenny Henry, Monty Python's Flying Circus, Ben Elton, The Fast Show, ... oh and I'm watching Dawn French doing current stand up right now. Jo Brand, ... oh this is getting boring and I've missed out loads. That's just a few comedians.
We have a few soaps that have stood the test of time too and a few current affairs programmes that have been around for a while: Coronation Street, East Enders, Have I got News for you, QI, The Archers, Panorama.
The BBC alone has been running for quite a while and I'll finish with an honourable mention for Blue Peter.
I haven't really refuted your argument but then that was pretty arse to start with. Gave me an excuse to reminisce for a while 8)
I was six in 1976 so too young to understand the original. I think I would have been 10 or so when I first saw a repeat with the family around the box and got it!
Another example; "telenovelas tell one self-contained story, typically within the span of a year or less", and there have been many hits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telenovela .
Well, Chappelle's Show was a matter of him not wanting to do it due to compensation issues. Had no idea Deadwood was an actual hit, though, I assumed it was one of those "cult following" shows.
My parents were fans of their original show. When they came back on the air a few decades ago I learned of them and admired their humor. I was a preteen at the time and some of it went over my head but the rest was laughter.
I wonder if they still have their winery? I regret not seeing them perform at the local casinos near Napa.
I don't know what to say really. By the time I was born the Smothers Brothers were already legendary and their influence was huge. Steve Martin, Super Dave, there's really no point in making list, it'd go on too long and then branch out too far. What a cultural force.
Sniff Sniff, when I was a kid, I loved these guys. I didn't have a brother, I had two sisters, love them of course, but always fantasized that if I did have a brother, I would be Tommy. I guess he had that socially awkward nerd like vibe. That's all I have to say. God love ya bro.
Comedy, in general, ages very badly, but the Smothers Brothers are still very funny. They were politically "controversial", but they were the furthest thing from shock comics, and I think that's what makes their comedy translate 50+ years later. Nothing is as dated as last season's transgressiveness, but their routines were sharp but welcoming, you could watch them with your grandparents and your children and everyone would have a laugh. They were well before my time, but I remember seeing them brought out on Letterman, etc, expecting a dire nostalgia act, and they just kill. A great act for any decade.