I’m not religious but more and more I think that church (as an institution) had an actual positive effect on local communities. At least as a "force" to keep people together, have a community space etc. A space where you can meet and talk with others. My parents are Anglicans and I always liked the little tea and biscuits after each service. These things matter.
It is not just churches, at least in the US there used to be all kinds of community groups around different things, these all seem to be disappearing. Things like Mens/Womens Fraternal Organizations, Miltary / VA organizations, or even something like Bowling leagues etc. While none of these have disappeared completely it does seem their membership numbers are decreasing in a similar way to churches
A lot of those fraternal organizations require having some religious belief or "belief in a higher power." I'd considered joining a couple, but was dissuaded when I read that in their rules.
Yes, churches do have positive effects on the cohesion of a community. The problem is that the corruption of the churches has countered their positive effects with negative effects and soured people on the church as an institution. In theory, there's no reason we can't have communities with strong senses of cohesion without deferring to a church, but you have to actually build such a thing and not merely rely one to spring up out of nothing. If you're lucky, perhaps you have a church in your community that hasn't been irrevocably co-opted by authoritarians.
People have left churches for a plethora of reasons, many of which stem from the church itself being corrupt. But moreover, as you mentioned people want a sense of community without and of the accountability that Church asks.
You don’t want to tithe because you don’t trust leadership with your money.
You don’t want to be told you’re doing things wrong, or to fix some of your sins.
You don’t want a judgmental group of people who think they are better than you.
You don’t want people who say they are generous but ignore the homeless and needy around them.
You want community without the worshiping God part. You want total freedom without guilt. And you want everything you do to be accepted without judgement.
The Church doesn’t exist to stroke egos or to center around a common interest (like a hobby). It supposed to be a place where broken people come and try to look more like Jesus. Even the Pharisees were corrupt. Corruption in the church isn’t new.
I think the positive impacts of the church aren’t publicized like the negatives are, just like any other large community, so like many people just take the worst and throw the baby out with the bath water.
There are good churches. There are good people. And money is honestly accounted for and used by churches.
I highly encourage lonely people to try church. But don’t just walk in thinking it’s perfect or that everyone there is to serve you hand and foot for just attending. It’s more of a hospital with patients that are committed to seeing each other get better.
> But moreover, as you mentioned people want a sense of community without and of the accountability that Church asks.
Do churches ask for accountability or conformity?
> You want community without the worshiping God part. You want total freedom without guilt. And you want everything you do to be accepted without judgement.
I believe you are strawmanning here. People who don't attend church experience guilt and have a moral compass likely in equal measure to churchgoers. The judgement that people wish to avoid is the kind that denies LGBTQ people's humanity, among other issues.
Accountability is a core tenant of Christianity. In the end you are accountable for everything you say and do, or don’t do.
There’s bound to be conformity in the way people grow or change under a given framework which is what Churches provide for everyone attending. Conformity as a whole is not the goal otherwise we wouldn’t have different denominations and expressions of worship.
It makes me sad that many online conversations become the Church vs. LGBTQ. I know this is a sensitive subject and the source of much pain. My main point is not to discuss that at length but rather to point to what this article and thread address which is ways the Church can help with loneliness.
I did not mean to intentionally straw man, if I did forgive me. When I spoke of ‘you’ it was a metaphorical as a general person who might not want church and less targeting the OP directly.
I agree with their points I mainly wanted to provide another perspective in hopes that readers might give the Church another chance. We have failed and will continue to in many ways, but I’ve seen the good outweigh the bad.
As a counterpoint, we still have school (the effect including parents), our job, local markets, local bars, local events (library talks, festivals, “neighborhood day”, national holidays celebrations etc).
Occasions to meet people abound for most people interested to, and we make a conscious choice to not go, or at least not bound in these events to keep people out of our private spheres.
I’m not religious but more and more I think that church (as an institution) had an actual positive effect on local communities. At least as a "force" to keep people together, have a community space etc. A space where you can meet and talk with others. My parents are Anglicans and I always liked the little tea and biscuits after each service. These things matter.