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Sorry, are we implying that it's better for society if people don't pay their debts?


During a pandemic? Yes.


Always? What about the people still working?

Or people with significant savings?


The thing about mass unemployment is that many people end up relying on the people around them for sustenance even though there are government programs.


We're talking about collection agencies here. This isn't about paying money back to the people you owe. This is a profitable business that doesn't care what's good for society. Wage garnishment for something like outrageous medical bills that gets paid to some parasite company isn't really better for society.


Yes, 100%. I highly, highly recommend the book "Debt: The First 5,000 Years". Society has repeatedly been stabilized with mass debt forgiveness many times throughout history.

I'm no religious person, but there certainly seems to be a certain theme about debt forgiveness... https://www.openbible.info/topics/debt_forgiveness

Debt is pretty central to most problems in society, actually.


The problem with your attempts to equate modern debt with debt of the past is 2 fold

1. Historical debt like referred to in the book that destabilized society was generational debt, passed on in the family. Unlike modern debt where your debt dies with you.

2. Historical debt there was no concept of bankruptcy in the legal systems of that time. There was also debtor prison and indentured servitude to pay off debt.

Those 2 factors are what destabilized societies and caused the need for mass debt forgiveness, we solved those by changing the lender risk metric, and allowing for a case by case relief valve called bankruptcy


> we solved those by changing the lender risk metric, and allowing for a case by case relief valve called bankruptcy

Student loan debt breaks both of these. Student loans were supposed to be low risk, but the jobs never materialized, and they can't be discharged by bankruptcy.

There's also the matter of people even being able to afford to file for bankruptcy. Just for that you're looking in the ballpark of $1500 in court and attorney fees.


>Student loan debt breaks both of these.

Not true, only government backed student loans are non-dischargable via bankruptcy (but there are other programs in place in lieu of bankruptcy including income bases repayment), other types of student loans are.

>Student loans were supposed to be low risk

Low risk to the LENDER not the borrower, they are low risk because they are guaranteed by the federal government

>but the jobs never materialized

That depends on your field of study, it was always a myth that just have any degree would net you a high paying job. If you fell for that will I am sorry you got scammed

STEM fields still have a high ROI on their education, but Liberal Arts, Social "Sciences" and other such non-STEM fields do not and never will

>There's also the matter of people even being able to afford to file for bankruptcy. Just for that you're looking in the ballpark of $1500 in court and attorney fees.

I take it you have never been through a personal bankruptcy. The first thing the lawyer will tell you is to stop all payments on all debt (for Chapter 7), it is with this money you will use to pay the costs and fees. If you have any income at all the filing fees are not a burden. In the event you waited to the point where are literally broke with no assets, and no money at all, only debt well not only did you wait far far far far too long before seeking bankruptcy protection there are ways to do it with deferred payments even some non-profits will help

For most people, you file for bankruptcy protection long before your situation is so dire you do not even have the filing fee money (which is about 1 month part time salary from Walmart)


I'd love to understand your confidence in reducing the individual debt systems of thousands of cultures to a bland, two-point progressive analysis. What kind of debtor prisons were in place in 10th century Tekrur? What part about the biblical decree that no debt can last longer than 7 years without full forgiveness does a bankruptcy system improve on?

There's not much point in comparing modern, highly legalized forms of debt with the myriad much less formal systems of the past if you don't know much about them.


>>I'd love to understand your confidence in reducing the individual debt systems of thousands of cultures to a bland, two-point progressive analysis.

I do not believe I did, I believe my statements were specifically about the debt systems that destabilized their societies and cause wide spread harm resulting in the need for massive debt forgiveness


Does modern debt actually die with you? I think creditors can sue your estate.


Yes. If your parents die in debt creditors can go after the estate but they can’t go after you for anything. At least in the US.


This is disingenuous as it pretends that the capability of debt creditors matches that of their behavior.


It is not disingenuous, a person has no legal liability or obligations to pay a debt they did not incur

It is up to you to understand and know the law, or hire someone that does


Your Estate is still you, in the modern context you are a fictitious entity represented by your assets, debts and liabilities as well as a physical person.

When your physical person ceases your fictitious entity remains and the executor of your estates is put in charge to close out that fictitious entity by settling any debts with any assets you may have, the remainder of the assets are then dispensed as declared by you, or by law

I fail to see how this is in anyway not inline with my statement or creates the same kind of generational debt that plagued the past


In some circumstances, yes.




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