So long as all the various agencies still demand paper documents, nobody can ever claim to be "turbotax" for immigration. This is slightly faster/cheaper, but is nowhere near the speed to justify that analogy.
Question: Who actually submits the documents? The 'How it works' is not clear.
"The application, upon completion, is sent to a SimpleCitizen-approved immigration lawyer for review to ensure users have the best application possible." ...But then what?
One of the reasons you hire a lawyer is so that lawyer can stand in for you. Part of that is that they can submit documents and requests on your behalf. Does SimpleCitizen seek power of attorney from customers? That would open a nest of licensing issues. Note the careful language. Are these "review" lawyers giving advice or not?
My spouse and I used it recently. It's actually MUCH, MUCH faster and far less overwhelming than filling out all of the paper documents. You answer the questions, it puts all of your data into the right places on the forms. A lawyer looks it over to be sure there are no errors and that you're not missing any information (the forms are in no way self-explanatory) - for example, for us they caught a question that we had interpreted in a different way and allowed us to correct it to the right interpretation and relevant documentation. After that, they print, assemble and mail you the (hundreds of pages) packet, so all you have to do is check it over, sign it, attach the filing fees, and mail it off.
No power of attorney, no standing in for you, just a guide for a very complicated process. From what we've seen, it's generally intended for people who would otherwise DIY the process, but want a little more peace of mind that they're doing it right. It's not really meant for those with complex situations that need a lawyer.
>> ... but want a little more peace of mind that they're doing it right.
That;s the danger. If they are giving advice that results in you submitting different answers that you otherwise would have, they are boarding on giving legal advice. It's all well and good when things work out, but when that advice goes wrong it can be very very bad for the client. That's why lawyers are licensed. These people are also handling lots of personal information that I hope would be covered by attorney-client privilege, but only if they are lawyers.
I created something similar for a less demanding government form and comparing it to TurboTax is by far the easiest way to help people understand the value behind what the tool does.
> So long as all the various agencies still demand paper documents, nobody can ever claim to be "turbotax" for immigration. This is slightly faster/cheaper, but is nowhere near the speed to justify that analogy.
TurboTax is useful because it provides an easy interface for doing your taxes -- electronic filing is just a bonus. Say IRS only accepted paper forms. It just means that you would have to print your return documents from TurboTax and mail them (an option that is still available in TurboTax). Mailing in IRS forms is not the hard part, it's filling them out. TurboTax was able to replace tax agents for most people because it guides you through the process and does all calculations for you. eFiling is just icing on the cake.
I agree with you, the "how it works" and the workflow are not crystal clear and gives room for suspicion about the validity of the legal advice given. That being said, if the service only gives transparent and actionable information about the visas, it is already huge. I recently had an appointment with an immigration layer for an investor visa. Like any lawyer, he enjoyed drowning me under complexity to justify his $200/hour fee. I ended up with all kind of insider details about 5 different visas... We start from so far when it comes to information transparency in the administration, SimpleCitizen gives an imperfect but still very useful answer.
Very interesting. The Harvard grad we hired back when we started my wife's' citizenship processes years ago was completely useless (late with paperwork, no-show to interviews, etc); we ended up losing the money and filing ourselves. This type of service is much needed. Applying for a permanent residence is mostly just form filling and document collection anyways, but the current processes is nearly unbearable. Does SimpleCitizen plan to stick around all the way through naturalization? She's got her interview coming up in July (woohoo!) and that process is a mess as well.
I used my the legal plan through my work to get a lawyer to apply for citizenship (document review, walk through the process). She was awful, gave me outdated forms, was condescending, and told me I needed documentation that wasn't needed.
Long story short, I filed by myself and had a friend who is a lawyer review certain parts of my application which I think needed a little extra review.
Something like this is awesome, I'll definitely bookmark it for if I have friends or family going through the citizenship process.
I had a similar experience with an immigration lawyer. Our lawyer didn't help much besides giving very broad directions, she gave us the wrong paperwork to fill out, which my wife and I had to redo from scratch upon discovering the problem. Then, on the day of the interview with USCIS (the "Are you really married? Show me the proof" interview and evidence dump), our lawyer failed to show up.
My wife and I did the interview on our own and thankfully got through it okay. On our way out of the building, we ran into our lawyer, who claimed that she got stuck in traffic and was very sorry. Needless to say, we fired her and we have filed all of our paperwork ourselves since this incident.
For my naturalization process, I will consider any other option other than a lawyer.
I suggest you join the message board at visajourney.com. I used that for my own family. For some reason, it is not uncommon for family immigration lawyers to screw up the cases a lot. I guess the good ones don't see much money in the basic service of filling out forms.
I totally understand wanting to start with immediate relatives in terms of petitioners for immigrant visas, but if you go to the website, click green card, and then "Who can apply" it should make it clear that there are other ways to get a green card, just not through SimpleCitizen (yet?).
This is what deskilling looks like. To deal with a simple immigration issue (spouse visa, say) you used to hire a cheap immigration lawyer to make sure all the boxes were ticked right. Now there's an app for that.
They aren't giving you all the services of a lawyer. I think this is less de-skilling than a more efficient delivery of barebones service.
They aren't going to tell you which immigration path is best, especially from a tax perspective. That requires a proper discussion of you and your family's assets and expected earnings. Nor will they be able to answer broader questions such as whether your kids will or will not be subject to selective service, either in the US or in your country of origin, something that doesn't depend on citizenship alone.
That's why I said "simple immigration issues". The garden-variety family-based green card does not require much beyond filling the paperwork, and now the app tells you what to fill in the boxes.
It used to be that paralegals would excerpt boxes of documents, now you have OCR applications and text search - the low-level work is automated. It's really the same with this service.
The thing about the US immigration is, any mistakes have major consequences, often leading to deportation and/or multi-year bans for country entry. TurboTax can make a mistake, and you will just pay whatever the IRS asks you to. The INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) is not that lenient.
That's why I think you have to be batshit crazy to use any software instead of a cheap immigration lawyer.
(I personally went through the student visa -> greencard -> citizenship process, so I know how it works)
The INS doesn't exist anymore. The USCIS is assuming its former responsibilities now.
Otherwise, completely agree with you. You don't want to fuck with these guys. A mistake in your application randomly triggers either them asking for more doc, or them rejecting the application altogether. A rejected application can have very severe consequences indeed.
I read a lot of horror stories in this thread about bad attorneys, I guess I was lucky with mine who was completely awesome.
And, even if you hire your own lawyer, being able to present a neat packet of all the forms already completed will surely save you many billable hours.
Help applying for citizenship? I'm sure there are some people in unique situations where an expert could be helpful, but it seemed like a super simple process when I went through it.
I could see needing help with the green card process, as it's more complex. That said, I know plenty of people who have applied without any help and been successful.
The one area where I've seen having an expert onboard help is around the nuances of applying. Often the USCIS will publish memos that clarify requirements (the instructions are often not that clear, especially if you have an unique situation). However, that means your expert needs to keep up on the latest on a day-to-day basis to be worth their cost.
Nope, didn't use a lawyer, just filled out the forms. All the questions are very straightforward. The most difficult part was listing all of the times you left the US (when you left, when you returned, countries visited) in the last 5 years. If you didn't start tracking it when you got your green card I can imagine it's a hell of a task (not every country stamps your passport). I wrote all mine down over the years.
And yes, you can change your legal name through the citizenship process. You just write down what you want your new name to be. However, I think if you do that, you can't go through the regular citizenship ceremony, rather, you need to have a judge do it. But don't quote me on that.
If you want to change your name, you have to go to a judicial ceremony, which occurs (almost always) at a local federal courthouse, as opposed to an administrative ceremony which may happen at a USCIS field office, school, auditorium, etc.
FWIW, in Cleveland they only offer judicial ceremonies at the federal courthouse building. In places where administrative ceremonies are offered, they are usually done at a higher frequency than judicial ceremonies, though they still try to have at least one judicial ceremony per month.
My friend Ryan is building something for immigration as well! It was recently featured on product hunt[1]. He's been working on it almost entirely solo, building a web front-end as well as apps for iPhone and iPad to ease the O-1 application process.
For now. Presumably, that could change at some point should they get traction. You have to start somewhere. ("The faith of a mustard seed" and all that.)
I like the idea, but the pricing is prohibitive. While it might be acceptable for a green card application, the price is the same for the citizenship which is much simpler
I'm a fairly recently naturalized US citizen, having immigrated from Canada to the US. I obtained a K-1 visa, adjusted status, removed conditions on my residency, and finally naturalized earlier this year.
This can all be done without a lawyer. I never had one and filled out all the forms myself.
A careful reading of the instructions, which accompany every USCIS form (often in a separate PDF, but listed on the same page), will give you all the information you need to know. If you need to know more information, you can read the USCIS Policy Manual[1], which is conveniently available to the public, and essentially tells you exactly the rules that a USCIS Immigration Officer will use when adjudicating your case.
USCIS also has a pretty good map of where you can start the whole process right on their home page[2], under Working in the US and Family.
That all said, my personal Swiss army knife of immigration information is and has always been the great VisaJourney[3], which is a forum of folks going through and who have gone through the immigration process helping each other out. Mostly, I've found that they are good for disarming the natural assumption I had that I was missing something in my applications, but their guides are great as well (though mostly restating information available in the USCIS form instructions).
I am... hesitant about this idea. It could be great for a lot of people! However, I feel that if you're going to be navigating the sometimes complicated waters of international immigration, you should understand what you're doing. Attempting to immigrate to the US without fully understanding the relevant immigration laws may very easily subject you to bars to entry that last more than a decade. These laws, in my opinion, are not hard to understand, and are, again, readily available from USCIS[4], so it's not like they're hidden. But saying the wrong thing, or misrepresenting yourself to an immigration officer in the mistaken assumption that it will better your case, can have disastrous consequences. Are you willing to bet the next decade or more of your life on a single website that may not necessarily back up its claims that your application is complete and without red flags?
Maybe I'm wrong and this startup will capture everything in an easy to understand format. But the whole thing makes me leery. There are a huge number of sites on the internet that purport to guarantee your application and give you special considerations, while essentially just charging you extra for forms you can download yourself for free. I've also heard many, many instances of simple immigration cases being screwed up by lawyers omitting or being late in submitting documentation for their clients, when by all rights they should have been able to file the paperwork themselves and saved thousands of dollars, but now have a visa / petition denial on their record that they will have to overcome the next time they file!
Good luck to them though. I hope if they do find a way to simplify their clients' applications, that USCIS can take a page from them and simplify the process on their website.
Question: Who actually submits the documents? The 'How it works' is not clear.
"The application, upon completion, is sent to a SimpleCitizen-approved immigration lawyer for review to ensure users have the best application possible." ...But then what?
One of the reasons you hire a lawyer is so that lawyer can stand in for you. Part of that is that they can submit documents and requests on your behalf. Does SimpleCitizen seek power of attorney from customers? That would open a nest of licensing issues. Note the careful language. Are these "review" lawyers giving advice or not?